Obama Connected to Bill Ayers, Barely
October 04, 2008 by: daveAn article in the New York Times discusses the "connection" between Obama and Bill Ayers, long ago partial founder of the anti-Vietnam militant group, the Weathermen, which launched a campaign of bomings in 1969 against the government. Those times had long since past, when Obama and Bill Ayers met.
Ayers is now a professor at the University of Illinois, with a doctorate in Education. He was and I would assume is still pro-Obama, not Obama being pro-Ayers. Why isn't this distinction more valid? Who the man WAS is not who the man now IS. He is a well respected professor now, and as Mayor Daley says, "He’s done a lot of good in this city and nationally". Not what I would call a terrorist. Those were difficult times for this country, when Obama was 8 years old mind you, and many people made many mistakes.
But aside from that, this now makes Palin fair game. You know why? SHE BROUGHT IT UP TODAY.
So, here goes.
Palin's "joe sixpack" husband is a secessionist, and she has repeatedly courted that same group over the years. The Alaska Independence Party was founded by Joe Vogler, who has said in a 1991 interview, only a few years before Palin attended the group's convention, said this, "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government." And this, "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
Wow. That group still venerates their great founder, and still to this day has the ultimate goal of seceding from the United States. Todd Palin has been a long time member, with a gap from 1995-2002, but is still now a member. Sarah palin also spoke at the AIP convention THIS YEAR.
So look, if there is going to be some kind of crazy ass connection of Obama to bombings from 40 years ago, or paint a guy who has since become a valuable asset to the community as a terrorist, then fair is fair. Palin is a secessionist, and condones the beliefs of the AIP. Although she has never been a member of the group (even though her husband is still), she sure has spent a portion of her time legitimizing them through speaking engagements, while governer.
Which is worse, a candidate who has a supporter who is now a pillar of the community, but long ago took the wrong path to fight for what he believed in?
OR
A candidate who legitimizes a group that currently thinks their state should not be part of the United States anymore, and who's husband is a current member of that group.
BTW, they can see Russia from her house, if they secede, maybe Russia will take them.
In reality neither are true in the way the other choses to spin it, though Obama has not touched the AIP issue. Again with the high ground. McCain, is winning soooooo important that you must sell your soul? Does a lobbyist get its wings each time you lie?
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Posted by Edgar on October 05, 2008 at 02:56 AM
Bill Ayers, “the Weathermen, which launched a campaign of bomings in 1969 against the government.”
“Those were difficult times for this country, when Obama was 8 years old mind you, and many people made many mistakes.”
Oh, it was just a few bombs...no big deal. LMAO!!!!
I love it! LMAO!! I love how you try to justify the weathermen’s actions by saying ‘it was tough times back then’. LMAO!!
Are you just baiting me man?
I know what you are trying to do. You are trying to justify the weatherman’s actions in order to make Ayers connections to Obama seem harmless.
It must be a nightmare to have to defend a guy like Ayer.
Posted by dave on October 05, 2008 at 11:38 AM
No you over-interpreted what I said. At no point did I say, nor hint at it being no-big-deal. It was, but those times are past, and everyone but a very very small number of people had since moved well on past it. There have been MANY times in this country where the actions of few, expressed the feelings of many, and that was one of those times. Was it the correct way, no, of course not. But it was a way, and one that our own government uses quite regularly, unless you didn’t notice the war going on. It’s no different. We are fighting in Iraq because of a belief that they are doing us harm. The weathermen did the same thing, but didn’t have a presidential seal of approval and wear uniforms.
Unfortunately it’s a subtle argument, and emotion can get in the way. I have had it quite a few times about the 911 guys. Unfortunately, a terrorist is trying to elicit a change to what they believe is right. The 911 terrorists, and the radical groups they are associated with do not want to elicit a change from us. They want us dead. They do not believe we are worth living. They are not terrorists, they are murderers.
There are many terrorists in the world who you might believe in, and choose to name a “hero” or “pursuer of justice” or “peace seeker”. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. Not that Ayers is any Mandela mind you, but do I get my point across?
Regardless though. The Ayers connection with Obama is tenuous at best. Big fucking deal. Did he shun the guy? No, and I don’t really think he should have.
Posted by edgar on October 05, 2008 at 09:17 PM
“No you over-interpreted what I said. At no point did I say, nor hint at it being no-big-deal.”
@The DONKEY at PERKISETS BLOG
“The fact that Obama has had some exposure to him, even if it was as far as having been to his house once, is in reality a non-thing.”
Posted by edgar on October 05, 2008 at 09:20 PM
“We are fighting in Iraq because of a belief that they are doing us harm. The weathermen did the same thing, but didn’t have a presidential seal of approval and wear uniforms.”
The weathermen bombed Iraq?
Posted by dave on October 05, 2008 at 09:41 PM
I was refering to your assertion that I was saying it was no big deal with your sentence here: “Oh, it was just a few bombs...no big deal. LMAO!!!! “ This was just a miscomm between us it seems. I do think Obama knowing him, and even possibly to the level that was in the NYT article, is no big deal. so you are correct. But i DO NOT think that bombing to make a point is no big deal. Of course it is.
LOL@ weathermen bombing iraq. smart ass.
Since I obviously left a “hole” for a comment, i will clarify. The weathermen believed the US Government was doing harm to it’s citizens. They were protecting themselves, at least that’s the justification for what they did. Again, was it right? Of course not, but the government didn’t “do no wrong” either. All sides had their moments of glory and moments of disgrace, but most have moved on since, and frankly, the country became a better place from it all. Fire cleans the way for growth and all that jazz.
Posted by perkiset on October 06, 2008 at 06:02 PM
This argument is actually so very funny to me.
If we had a magic eyeball and could see the past and events of every person that McCain or Obama or Biden or Palin or BushClintonClintonBushCheneyCarterFordReaganNixonetcetcetc ever had association with or were friends with it’d be a bloodbath. The fact that you all know me and converse with me may very well get you thrown in prison someday (Of course, it probably won’t, unless we see the creation of the Thought Police. And what will Room 101 look like for you, eh?)
The rightwing is just so desperate to tar Obama with SOME dirty brush that they’ll work anything into hamburger. Let’s see if it sticks. I doubt it, just as the Keating 5 scandal probably won’t either, and frankly, it’s meaningless as well. Let’s get back to how we’re going to go forward. Oh, sorry, right. McCain can’t. Mud is all he’s got left. ::sigh:: It’s going to be a long month.
Posted by dave on October 06, 2008 at 06:21 PM
its actually getting a bit tiring.